Safety Checks on Gun Channels - WTF?!?!?

[Gunnr]

Well, he's not Tex Grebner....

hahahahahahaha..... Maybe that incident got Tex to grow up a little. I hear he's a really nice guy and I'm glad he is OK after what happened. He did act a fool in his videos and maybe he is settled down now and a safty check in his video would have been stupid, he was showing a draw and shoot technique with live fire. Accidents do happen and his had nothing to do with safty checking anything. It would be nice if Tex was on our forum and could then defend himself and explain what happened. It might be a good lesson for some. Peace all, Gunnr

[GlassWolf]

Unless you are police, security, or bank cash guards, the odds of having to shoot someone at 4" is highly improbable.

Rule #1 of any self defense situation. Put distance between you and the attacker.

I am going to mildly disagree with these statements, simply because every situation is different, and training for any possibility you could encounter will improve the chances of survival if you ever are in an encounter where the training would matter. Situations like being mugged in a parking lot after work, at night at the grocery store, or being carjacked and what not are examples of extreme CQB, and are very likely the type of thing from which we carry to defend ourselves. In these situations, it's actually taught to press into your attacker, as opposed to putting distance between you and your aggressor, since this limits their ability to swing a weapon, draw a gun, etc, and gives you the ability to draw and fire while blocking the aggressor's view of your actions, allowing you to shoot, in essence, point blank, from retention (from the hip, so to speak.)

I do agree that if you have the ability to fully extend, get a sight picture, and fire, that you should stay moving. That I fully agree with, but when you're up close and personal such as in a brawl, or hand to hand with someone who's chosen to rush you with a blitz type attack, sometimes that's just not an option, and having trained for that sort of situation can save your rump.

[norahc]

I am going to mildly disagree with these statements, simply because every situation is different, and training for any possibility you could encounter will improve the chances of survival if you ever are in an encounter where the training would matter. Situations like being mugged in a parking lot after work, at night at the grocery store, or being carjacked and what not are examples of extreme CQB, and are very likely the type of thing from which we carry to defend ourselves. In these situations, it's actually taught to press into your attacker, as opposed to putting distance between you and your aggressor, since this limits their ability to swing a weapon, draw a gun, etc, and gives you the ability to draw and fire while blocking the aggressor's view of your actions, allowing you to shoot, in essence, point blank, from retention (from the hip, so to speak.)

I do agree that if you have the ability to fully extend, get a sight picture, and fire, that you should stay moving. That I fully agree with, but when you're up close and personal such as in a brawl, or hand to hand with someone who's chosen to rush you with a blitz type attack, sometimes that's just not an option, and having trained for that sort of situation can save your rump.

Exactly. If you're in the middle of getting stabbed, you don't have the luxury of creating distance and getting a good sight picture.

[Tux]

I am going to mildly disagree with these statements, simply because every situation is different, and training for any possibility you could encounter will improve the chances of survival if you ever are in an encounter where the training would matter. Situations like being mugged in a parking lot after work, at night at the grocery store, or being carjacked and what not are examples of extreme CQB, and are very likely the type of thing from which we carry to defend ourselves. In these situations, it's actually taught to press into your attacker, as opposed to putting distance between you and your aggressor, since this limits their ability to swing a weapon, draw a gun, etc, and gives you the ability to draw and fire while blocking the aggressor's view of your actions, allowing you to shoot, in essence, point blank, from retention (from the hip, so to speak.)

I do agree that if you have the ability to fully extend, get a sight picture, and fire, that you should stay moving. That I fully agree with, but when you're up close and personal such as in a brawl, or hand to hand with someone who's chosen to rush you with a blitz type attack, sometimes that's just not an option, and having trained for that sort of situation can save your rump.

Disagreement is good, as it often brings up good dialog.

So where is this taught that you press your gun into your attacker?

I'm still failing to see what Tex was doing. Standing face to face literally 4". Either he does not have a weapon and you became the aggressor, or he does have a weapon and you let an armed person in your immediate space.

Sorry, I have to contend that what Tex was attempting to was tactically stupid. Situational awareness is the name of the game and there is not a person on the face of the planet I am going to let get within arms reach of me.

Standing there looking eyeball to eyeball and trying to out shoot an attacker at point blank range is a far fetched scenario and in Tex's case showed just how stupid it was. One could sit there all day and throw out hypothetical scenarios, but the reality is my instincts are to push you back.

I've been in two situations myself in life where a weapon was drawn, neither one involved having to draw at point blank range.

[GlassWolf]

Every CBQ handgun class I've taken over the past 20 years has involved the methodology I've mentioned. Mind you, I'm not talking in relation to the original video or atricle in this thread, as I don't even recall if I watched it. I'm strictly speaking on the basis of close quarters combat technique. If you want some examples of this, go to youtube and search on "clowe quarters handgun" and see some of the videos by people like Rob Pincus and James yeager.

In regards to letting an aggressor that close to you, it's not always obvious who the aggressors will be until they are right next to you. We had a bouncer at our club recently who was shot to death at point blank range, because a kid he'd tossed out of the club earlier walked up to him, pulled a gun in the parking lot from under his shirt, and shot the bouncer in the back of his head, then fired 4 more times as the man fell dead to the ground. Situational awareness is great, but it's not always going to save you. Sometimes it's just a matter of training and reaction time. Fights happen, people are sometimes just crazy, disturbed, or in a rage over something that has nothing to do with you, but becomes your problem when they make it so. As I noted, every situation is different so you can't always predict what's going to happen before it does.

It's not always a gun your opponent has, either. If he pulls a knife, or a beer bottle, or whatever, you have to be ready to defend against that, and if he is close to you, you're better off stepping into him to prevent his ability to extend and swing, stab, or what have you, and by doing so, you can not just block hims attack, but stop it short, tie up his hands, and disarm him and subdue him... if you're trained, and practiced in how to do so.

[MP Gunther]

"Standing there looking eyeball to eyeball and trying to out shoot an attacker at point blank range is a far fetched scenario and in Tex's case showed just how stupid it was. One could sit there all day and throw out hypothetical scenarios, but the reality is my instincts are to push you back.

I've been in two situations myself in life where a weapon was drawn, neither one involved having to draw at point blank range."

Maybe George Zimmerman can enlighten us on this topic?

[Tux]

My previous instruction has always been create distance. But looking at this video is swaying my thought process some.

[GlassWolf]

Ah! You found just the video I was hoping, too. That course is outstanding. I wanted to link to it directly for you, but lately if I open any video with this PC, the entire thing locks up and I have to reboot the machine, so I can't open youtube. (I need to build a new computer. This one is about ready to croak.) Much of what I'd tried to portray in our discussion is illustrated in that video. Rob Pincus does a few others about clearing corners in a building and such that further illustrate the dangers of holding the gun away from the body in certain settings as well that can be very helpful to watch. If you like his stuff, his course DVDs are actually 20% off through X-mas on his I.C.E. site. All of the videos. (He has a LOT of them)