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Thread: Verbal Commands

  1. #11
    Senior Member norahc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GlassWolf View Post
    You tell the person to stop, and that you feel threatened before you feel the need to draw your weapon. That's an attempt to de-escalate or defuse the situation, and indicate your feeling of a threat. If they refuse to cease their advancement, and you don't feel you have any other option, then you draw your weapon to USE it, not to wave it around and try to threaten them with it. That's how you get killed.
    Agreed...to a point. However, to say that the moment you are going to draw your weapon means that you will automatically pull the trigger when the sights are lined up ignores the reality of an extremely fluid and dynamic situation. There's a reason that TAP-RACK-BANG has been changed, and it has to do with the same mindset you are presenting here. If you are justified in pulling your weapon, it does not mean that in every case you are justified in pulling the trigger. As an example only, let's look at the following scenario:
    You are threatened to the point that you feel justified in drawing your weapon. In the roughly two seconds it takes you to draw your weapon, the attack stops and the perpetrator turns to flee. By your admitted mindset of "you draw your weapon to USE it", are you saying you would pull the trigger anyway? Since your attacker was already turning to disengage, you end up shooting him in the back. Just for discussion's sake, let's say a witness sees the shooting. What do you think they would tell the police, the district attorney, and the jury?
    "Well, I saw GlassWolf pull out his gun and shoot the deceased in the back for no apparent reason."
    "Did GlassWolf say anything to the deceased before pulling the trigger?"
    "No."
    Think that would bode well for you in court?

    I am in no way advocating threatening anybody with a gun. If you feel the need to draw it, you damn well better be ready to use it. I am saying that it better be your last resort, and you need to be able to prove to everyone that you did everything you reasonably could to avoid pulling the trigger. I fail to see how yelling "STOP" one last time as you are bring the weapon up to obtain your sight picture will in any way add more time or increase any risk to you, whereas it could definitely help you with the legal aftermath of the incident.

    Obviously, if you are in a point shooting, or shooting from retention scenario, it is going to be a different situation.
    "Some battles are fought for principle and some battles are fought for dollars. When you fight for principles you fight until hell freezes over and then you fight on the ice." - Spokane Councilman Steve Salvatori

  2. #12
    Senior Member GlassWolf's Avatar
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    If I feel threatened enough to draw, it's because I fear for my life. I can take a punch or two. It'd take more than that to threaten my life. If I'm in the state or situation that I've decided to draw my weapon, there's little to no chance that the badguy is just going to "change his mind" spin on his heels and walk off. If he changes his presentation angle as I'm drawing, how do I know he's leaving? How do I know he isn't changing his angle of attack, or reaching for a weapon behind his back? Yes, if I'm threatened enough to draw, the probability is almost guaranteed that I'm going to shoot. The one thing that comes to mind that could present your above mentioned situation though, would be if I lose my clear line of fire due to something like a friendly falling/stepping/being thrown between the target and myself, or something along those lines. The problem is that most of your examples woould take more time to play out than most shootings do. When you come to the point that you need to draw your weapon, statistics have shown that the entire encounter is usually over in 3 to 7 seconds total; about the same number of seconds as yards distance bbetween you and your attacker in most cases. (stats provided by police studies of defensive shooting incidents)

    I'm not saying it's impossible for a situation to occur wherein you draw and don't fire your weapon, but your mindset should be a positive one, as in you plan to pull the trigger, you're ready to do so, you're prepared for the consequences of that action, etc.. before you ever reach for the gun. These are things you should have considered before you even chose to carry. This goes back to the whole thing about telling yourself things in a positive frame to accomplish something.. as in "I will go to the store" or "I will remember my keys when I leave the house" instead of saying to yourself "dpn't forget my keys." The way you think about things can affect the outcome, when your mind is the deciding factor. You should continually prepare both your mind and your body. James Yeager put it well when he said, "Your responsibility to be prepared for the fight never ends."

    By the way, I think we've wandered quite a way off topic here.
    I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
    Robert A. Heinlein

  3. #13
    Senior Member MP Gunther's Avatar
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    EXCELLENT arguements

  4. #14
    Senior Member Iwap_Evile's Avatar
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    I think that in a situation where you are drawing your weapon to defend yourself you lose fine motor skills and will do what you trained to do. I train to draw my weapon, aim and fire. If I am going to use verbal commands before firing I would have to include those commands in my training as in stressful situations motor skills and thought go out the widow and training and muscle memory takeover. I have not thought about using any type of command. I will have to think about it and if I decide to use verbal commands I will include them in my training

  5. #15
    Senior Member norahc's Avatar
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    The YankeeMarshall also comments on the "if I draw, I'm going to shoot" mentality.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4voxtmsu9o

    I guess my biggest issue is the belief that if you are going to draw, you are ALWAYS going to shoot. That mentality can land you in court and jail. Each situation is different, so our actions must be tailored to meet the circumstances of the current situation. The always and never mentality will get you in trouble, guaranteed.

    Agreed, we've wandered way off topic. Maybe one of the mods can split these posts out into their own thread, since it seems like a worthwhile discussion.
    "Some battles are fought for principle and some battles are fought for dollars. When you fight for principles you fight until hell freezes over and then you fight on the ice." - Spokane Councilman Steve Salvatori

  6. #16
    Member E1kinobi's Avatar
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    Yelling a verbal command to an attacker to stop or drop his weapon is always a good thing especially for a self defense shooter as it could be a strong point of proof should one find him or herself in front of a judge and jury. By using verbal commands against an attacker you can argue (or your lawyer) that you feared for your life and was EVEN giving the attacker a fair warning to stop his assault but was not sucessful so you are compeled to use leathal force. But when doing so made sure you pull your weapon out and made clear to your assailant that you want him or her to stop the threat. Of course its better off if someone see and hear the entire incident so that you can later on use them as witness for your defense. A video tape recording on most places are also a great tool in helping one to strenghten his or her defense in this case. But the most important thing on this scenario is keeping a safe distance between you and the attacker. When facing multiple attacker never allow them to get behind you. Just my two cents
    Beati pacifici

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