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View Full Version : 9mm or 40 S&W



Iwap_Evile
10-09-2012, 06:48 PM
I have 8 9mm pistols and have sold all my 40's. After much reading I came to the opinion that stopping an individual with a handgun is more about shot placement then the size of the bullet. However, when I look at the FBI and most police departments they have chosen to issue 40's. So, I am thinking about getting another 40 and practice with it more so I can shoot it as well as I shoot the 9mm. I am looking for opinions on carrying the 40 instead of the 9mm. Does is really offer any advantage.

GlassWolf
10-09-2012, 06:54 PM
The differences between handgun rounds from 9mm through 45 caliber in regards to ballistics (stopping power, penetration, expansion, etc) are minimal at best. A 9mm will stop stop someone just as well as a .45ACP with proper shot placement, and with good ammunition, penetration isn't an issue either. Penetration is more important than expansion, as well. I'd rather have the increase in magazine capacity, which is why I stick with 9mm over .40S&W. Compare two of the exact same round (eg, Federal SXT hollow points) in 9mm and .40S&W, and you'll see that the differences are minimal.

The 9mm will also allow you to recover more quickly and re-acquire a sight picture for a second strike capability more quickly than a round that will have more recoil in a similar handgun, and I'd prefer, myself, to be able to hit multiple targets, or the same target multiple times, accurately and more quickly.

just my two cents

MJ45
10-10-2012, 07:47 AM
I like 40 a lot. Recoil does not bother me. However, I shoot 9 a lot more, because it is so much cheaper! Shot placement is definitely key!

1911GunSlinger
10-10-2012, 09:54 AM
I would go .40!!! I got rid of all my 9mm guns and the smallest cal i have now is 40 witch is what i use for training!!!

tacticalkimchi
10-10-2012, 10:50 AM
Well said. I agree completely.

tacticalkimchi
10-10-2012, 10:54 AM
I prefer the 9mm over the 40 s&w because the recoil and follow-up shots are much better. You can use different kinds of self-defense ammo too. I get tired of people bashing the 9mm as it is a great round.

Pedro3101
10-10-2012, 11:00 AM
I think we all get caught up on the caliber issue, personally I feel it's what you shoot best and what you have at the time, I feel comfortable carrying my G23 but its not easy to conceal in hot summers so I carry my LC9 which I also feel comfortable with, the advancement in bullets reduce the difference between calibers.

GlassWolf
10-10-2012, 07:17 PM
.40 may be an ever so slightly larger (compromise) round, but keep in mind, there is no standard for +P or +P+ in .40S&W, while there is for 9mm. :)

just sayin'

EncounterZero
10-10-2012, 10:12 PM
I think it would depend on what your more accurate and comfortable with because you can stop some one with a .22 with proper shot placement. Personally I'm comfortable with my .45 cause it's what I feel puts a nice punch on something where as my father likes his .9 over my .45. One other factor that might be a good thing to look into would be the temporary cavity with your choice of ammo and caliber.

Acmagnum
10-12-2012, 11:54 AM
I believe in shot placement also. I feel comfortable with carrying all of the hanguns I own. (see below) I own 380 acp, 9mm, 45 acp, 38 special, 357 magnum, and 22 lr.

CTgunguy
10-12-2012, 12:38 PM
Whatever you are more comfortable and confident in should be your choice

Gunnr
10-13-2012, 04:06 PM
I shoot 40S&W just because. I like it and I hit where I aim. Recovery is not a problem for me. Its called practice and that I do. There isnt any +p or +p+ ammo because 40S&W is considered a high pressure round. I dont know why but thats what the manufacturers seem to say. It dosent matter to me It shoots good and with proper placement it does what it should. I still like 9mm and even 22 cal dosent really matter just that my guns are 40cal right now.

GlassWolf
10-13-2012, 07:37 PM
.40 just doesn't offer anything over 9mm, honestly.. except a lower magazine capacity.

norahc
10-13-2012, 08:02 PM
.40 just doesn't offer anything over 9mm, honestly.. except a lower magazine capacity.

There's a reason it's referred to as "40 Short and Weak". ;)

GlassWolf
10-14-2012, 06:08 AM
There's a reason it's referred to as "40 Short and Weak". ;)

Ignorance? (no offense) There's little to no difference between anything from 9mm through 10mm, including .40 and .45ACP in statistical data when it comes to SD rounds and "stopping power." The .40S&W is a compromise round. It's the worst of everything tied into one round. It doesn't have the magazine capacity of a 9mm, and it lacks the expansion and penetration of larger rounds like the 10mm. That saying of yours was in reference to 9mm ball ammo, over twenty years ago, before the plethora high pressure, high expansion self defense rounds available today.

orlandojohnson
10-14-2012, 07:18 AM
Whatever you are more comfortable and confident in should be your choice


:) 9mm and .40s&w are good where you like to shoot

MP Gunther
10-14-2012, 01:39 PM
Ditto on the shot placement, that's the most important and what YOU feel most comfortable with. Until I got older and couldn't see worth a sh!t anymore I realize how important placement is.

norahc
10-14-2012, 01:53 PM
Ignorance? (no offense) There's little to no difference between anything from 9mm through 10mm, including .40 and .45ACP in statistical data when it comes to SD rounds and "stopping power." The .40S&W is a compromise round. It's the worst of everything tied into one round. It doesn't have the magazine capacity of a 9mm, and it lacks the expansion and penetration of larger rounds like the 10mm. That saying of yours was in reference to 9mm ball ammo, over twenty years ago, before the plethora high pressure, high expansion self defense rounds available today.
None taken, and I'm not disagreeing with you. But there is a difference between the calibers and their "stopping power" in the real world, even with the best shot placement. If there wasn't, a 9mm would be all you would need to defend yourself against a bear (for example).

milesman
10-14-2012, 01:54 PM
.40 just doesn't offer anything over 9mm, honestly.. except a lower magazine capacity.

by that logic we should all get rid of our even smaller capacity .45"s

GlassWolf
10-14-2012, 09:28 PM
by that logic we should all get rid of our even smaller capacity .45"s

Most likely, yes, considering the .45ACP is a subsonic round with less than stellar penetration characteristics, and the 1911 is a fairly unreliable gun in general compared to say, a Glock (Lord help me for having to say that.) That said, I do love my old Gov't 1911a1. I just don't EDC it.


None taken, and I'm not disagreeing with you. But there is a difference between the calibers and their "stopping power" in the real world, even with the best shot placement. If there wasn't, a 9mm would be all you would need to defend yourself against a bear (for example).

Truth be told, I actually know of a guy who killed a black bear with a .380 auto, but that said, I'd rather have a rifle round, like a 45-70 or a .458 against a bear. Forget handguns. The difference between any handgun caliber, and the range of velocities for rifles, is equated in magnitudes. Anyway, I enjoy shooting a .40, and even a 10mm, but for an SD gun, I just don't see a need for more than 9mm. Shot placement is important, but nothing is "the most important factor." As Massad Ayoob once said, "Nothing is everything, but everything is something." In real world compiled data on gun caliber versus one shot stops, there's strong evidence to suggest that the caliber of the round isn't a big factor if you're using at least a 9mm hollow point or larger.

E1kinobi
10-19-2012, 07:08 AM
I agree with MJ45. A lot of people i know always suggest that .40 sw kick bothers them so much reason for them not carrying the round. As for me I dont think its much different, I practiced with my M&P 40 FS alot that I cant really tell anymore the difference between a 9mm or a .40 even a .45. Now when I take out my big guns (454cassuls, the 44magnum, 50ae) yes the recoil is noticable not on a .40, at least not for me. A gun shop owner once trying to convince me to purchase the M&P Shield 9 instead of the .40 which at the time they do not have on stock said that if me and him pointed the gun at each other he would have faster recover on target time than I would. Responded to him that if ever such scenario would take place , I will very much make sure that his second shot would not be taking place, that is ofcourse if he didn 't put me down first. After that he tok my name and put me on the wating list for the first shipment of the M&P 40. :)

GlassWolf
10-19-2012, 09:09 AM
decreased magazine capacity
increased wear on the gun from a high pressure load
negligible difference in terminal ballistics

The .40 caliber round is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. It's a compromise round that's the worst of everything between a 9mm and a .45ACP

I see a lot of people here trying to argue the points others are making in favor of the 9mm, yet I see nobody offering real, tangible benefits of a .40S&W over other rounds.

Frank9MM
10-20-2012, 07:00 AM
Love the 9mm. Have 3, got rid of my 357 sig and my 45acp.

MP Gunther
10-20-2012, 09:57 AM
You know, it's better to have a gun and not need it than to need a gun and not have it! I rotate all of mine in usage from my TPH to the 45C. My 9 is a sub-compact XD and my 40's a P2000. I think they are both good rounds but for me mag capacity is important but I'd rather carry the 40 myself. I don't see enough difference when your going for center mass.

GlassWolf
10-22-2012, 01:53 PM
I'll concede that depending on the situation, sometimes shouting a warning like STOP! may be enough as you draw the weapon. In my home? no. I'd probably shoot. In a parking lot approaching my car? OK, I can see it.

This lady in her video backs your case:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_mFnrGIiRI&feature=share

norahc
10-22-2012, 01:56 PM
The YankeeMarshall also comments on the "if I draw, I'm going to shoot" mentality.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L4voxtmsu9o

I guess my biggest issue is the belief that if you are going to draw, you are ALWAYS going to shoot. That mentality can land you in court and jail. Each situation is different, so our actions must be tailored to meet the circumstances of the current situation. The always and never mentality will get you in trouble, guaranteed.

Agreed, we've wandered way off topic. Maybe one of the mods can split these posts out into their own thread, since it seems like a worthwhile discussion.

tacticalkimchi
10-23-2012, 05:24 PM
I prefer 9mm over 40SW or 45ACP because it is very shootable and the ammo these days are great.

MilitaryArms
10-24-2012, 10:00 AM
.40 S&W brings nothing to the table in terms of benefits vs. what's already on the market.

Some claim the .40 is a good "compromise" round. However it has neither the capacity of the 9mm nor the power of the .45 and it offers absolutely nothing in terms of improved terminal ballistics when compared to the both the 9mm and .45 ACP. The only thing the .40 adds to the mix is more recoil than both the 9mm and .45 ACP.

The .40 is a high pressure round that not only offers increased recoil but it also brings with it increased wear on the firearm that chambers it.

The .40 came about because of a knee-jerk reaction by the FBI to the Dade County shootout. There was a race to blame something other than the performance of the agents involved. That blame fell on the 9mm. As it turns out neither the .45 ACP or .40 S&W would have done any better assuming shots were placed exactly the same.

Since the FBI blamed the caliber, they had to find something different. They couldn't have picked the .45 ACP because they had already turned it down. So they looked to the new wildcat 10mm cartridge. They quickly adopted it after S&W offered them a chopped down 1006 handgun (1076). The Norma loads of the day were stout, very stout. The 10mm was too much to handle for many agents, so they FBI came up with the infamous "FBI load" which reduced the powder charge. S&W took note, reduced the case volume by trimming the case length and the .40 S&W was born - a neutered 10mm.

When the FBI does something, everyone seems to follow. Most police agencies mimic the FBI and many citizens mimic the police. What these agencies do is viewed to be cool and cutting edge so people tend to do what they do. When the FBI adopted the 10mm manufacturers couldn't keep up with the demand for new 10mm pistols. People were jumping on the 10mm bandwagon in droves. When the FBI dumped the 10mm and went to the .40 S&W, everyone dumped their 10mm's and adopted the .40.

So when the FBI dumped the 10mm and moved to the .40, the 10mm's fate was sealed. Demand for the cartridge ceased and most manufacturers stopped producing pistols in the chambering. Used 10mm's clogged the used gun racks at gun shops as people flocked to trade them in on .40's. It darn near killed the 10mm, which to me is the superior caliber that actually offers something 9mm and .45 ACP don't. But that's another discussion.

If the FBI dumped the .40 tomorrow and adopted the .357 SIG, you would see the exact same thing happen. The FBI followers would dump their .40's and adopt the .357 SIG.

I never jumped on the .40 bandwagon because I knew back then what was happening. I wasn't going to follow the masses in their race to adopt the .40 as I saw no advantage to it. Not to mention, the most unreliable versions of popular designs tend to be the .40 caliber versions -- take Glock as an example. The most problematic Glocks are the .40's including being the most likely to have the infamous "Kaboom" issue due to the unsupported chamber and high pressure of the round.

I'm a 9mm carry gun kind of guy and a .45 ACP for fun kind of guy. I have exactly zero .40's in my collection.

Pedro3101
10-24-2012, 11:46 AM
Very good post and it gives me some facts to help make caliber decisions not just views and personal preference............:)

Gunnr
10-24-2012, 08:02 PM
Well if it ever comes down to it and everyone and their brother has bought and used up the available 9mm Im sure I'll be able to find the hated 40S&W to feed my gun.... LOL Now boys dont get your panties in a bunch Its all in jest. Happy hunting.

GlassWolf
10-24-2012, 09:16 PM
Well if it ever comes down to it and everyone and their brother has bought and used up the available 9mm Im sure I'll be able to find the hated 40S&W to feed my gun.... LOL Now boys dont get your panties in a bunch Its all in jest. Happy hunting.

Just the opposite will be the case, in fact. The .40 isn't in as high of production numbers, and for the most part it's only found in the U.S.
The 9mm parabellum/9x19mm round is the NATO standard, and as such is used in guns worldwide, and is therefore available in massive quantities, worldwide, at low prices.
This is one of the reasons, along with mag capacity, that the 9mm is so popular.